Living Out Your Purpose, Part 1

CHIP: Well thanks, Dave. I have a special guest, a great friend, Gregg Dedrick. And we are going to talk about what it means to build in the flesh versus building in the Spirit. For some that might be a bit of a weird thought or a phrase you haven’t heard. For many, you understand exactly what that is, where we try to do the Christian life in our energy, by our willpower. We are trying really hard to do the right things for the right reasons and that often leaves us burned out, discouraged, and not experiencing at all what God wants for us. Today, Gregg Dedrick, long corporate experience, graduate of Cornell, kind of hit the pinnacle, if you will, of the corporate world as the president of Kentucky Friend Chicken. So, Gregg, tell us a little bit about, if you will, I want to just jump right in, of kind of your story, because a lot of people if they looked at your life, the one that you say needed to radically change, they would say, “I – that’s the life I’ve been dreaming of.”

GREGG: Yes. you know, if I look back, you know, at corporate life, I had made it. I was a success, you know, at least in the eyes of the world that I was an executive at PepsiCo when I was very young. I got assigned to the spinoff team that took the restaurants that were part of PepsiCo: KFC, Taco Bell, and Pizza Hut to form Yum! and I was on the team to form that and I became the chief people officer of the largest restaurant company in the world. There were over a million employees around the globe belonging to us and our franchisees. You know, I was the president of KFC for five years, I got to retire early. You know, so, in a lot of ways, I had reached my dreams. I had achieved those, the goals that I had set, to your point, that most people would look at and say, “That’s amazing.” And also in the church world, you know, I had been a lay leader in the church world since my twenties as a deacon and as an elder. I took a couple years off corporate to be the executive pastor of a mega church. And so, as people were looking at me, they would say, “Wow, in both, you know, spheres, Gregg has really been successful.” But as I was retiring, physically, emotionally, and spiritually, I was burned out.

CHIP: Mm-hm.

GREGG: I was burned out not only on business but I was burned out on ministry. And as I was kind of finishing up that season, I knew that couldn’t be all there was. There had to be more. There had to be more to life, there had to be more to when Jesus said, “I came,” in John 10:10, “I came to give life and life to the full.” I knew there, there had to be more to it, but what was it? How do I find it? You know, and part of that, as I was leaving, One, our marriage, Shelley and my marriage, which we’ve been married for forty-four years now, but there was a season where we didn’t know if we were going to make it. Where every day was we had to make a decision. We are going to stay in it, we are going to keep going, and we are going to work our way through it. I was suffering from some anxiety attacks that came after me as performance shifted in the business and rocked my identity, which I’ll talk about. So, as I was leaving, I had no passion to reenter business, even though I was young enough to do that. I had no passion to reenter ministry. The basic joy of life in a lot of ways had, you know, departed from me and my pursuit of success, in a lot of ways, sent me in to this brick wall, which I thought was a brick wall at the time, but actually turned out to be God.

CHIP: Yes.

GREGG: And I told, I said, I remember saying to the Lord, “I just want to be like Moses,” after he fled Egypt, he went to the side of the hill to tend his father-in-law’s sheep. And he didn’t want to own them, he just wanted to be there tending them. And I said, “Lord, I’m going to do that and even if You send two burning bushes, I’m not going anywhere.” But, you know, a few weeks into that, I realized, you know, I’m only, I’m only fifty. I can’t sit still, I don’t golf, and I had a time to reflect back and say, you know, how did I end up in this situation? You know, I thought I was doing my best to serve God, doing my best in my career, to serve at church. And for my family I thought I was pursuing success the right way. But, you know, essentially I had become a tired servant. Operating out of self-sufficiency and in that season, you know, that’s when I ran out on my own strength. And in surrender, you know, you sur – when you run into a brick wall, you have a tendency to surrender and to – so – in surrender, you know, I said, you know, “Lord, I really need Your help.

You have got to do something and I need Your help to make it forward.” So, that was really the beginning season. It started with surrender, which I think is one of the principles you always talk about is everything good God does begins with our surrender.

CHIP: What are some ways that you have viewed life or yourself or God that really were inhibitors and then what did you learn that could help those of us that are very sincere and yet may feel really like that tired servant.

GREGG: Yeah. Well, I remember in that season of really just hunkering down and just being with the Lord and a season of asking Him a lot of questions and trying to hear His voice. You know, I remember in my journal writing down this phrase a couple times. And the first time was, “Gregg, you’ve got it all wrong.” Now, when you don’t hear from God in that way, you know, very often and the first thing you hear is, “You’ve got it all wrong,” you’re off to a bad start. But at that point I was just hungry and wanting to learn and I felt the gentleness of God in the same way that He said that. And what He revealed to me is that my code, my faith had become a code of ethics. You know, it was this series of behaviors that I had identified that would identify me as a Christian, and they became these guidelines and guardrails. And as long as I was doing those things and in those guidelines and guardrails, I was a “good Christian.” And the Lord just revealed to me in that season, that’s like the law. You know? The law gives us behaviors, but it’s really there just to point out we can’t follow it. And in that season, then, the Lord kind of flipped that around and He took me back to the first commandment, which is to love the Lord with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength. And as I started meditating on that, what He showed me, I took a Bible, a word search Bible study through wholehearted and halfhearted love, What He showed me is I was halfhearted in love with Him. That, yes, I had a love for Him, but I loved these other things more. And so, I remember feeling like the guy in the gospels who said, you know, “Lord, I believe. Would You help my unbelief?” You know, I said to the Lord in that season, “Lord, I love You, but would You teach me how to love You wholeheartedly? Because I don’t know how to do that.” The next thing I really felt was that, the Lord, you know, revealed to me in kind of this phrase, “The problem isn’t that you don’t, you don’t love Me.” I’m like, Oh gosh, I’ve got a bigger problem? He says, “The problem is that you don’t know Me.”

CHIP: Mm.

GREGG: “Because if you knew Me, you couldn’t help but love Me.” And I was, you know, and at first I was kind of defensive around that, because I was like, “What do You mean?” I read the Bible, I know Scripture, I have done memory verses, I have been in church all my life, but what He was showing me in this season is I knew a lot about Him, but I really didn’t know Him. And that led me to kind of this whole notion of, “Lord, would You teach me about You?” And one of the ways He did that, one of the ways that He opened my heart, Chip, beyond some of those, you know, the process and the exercises we do to try to draw close to God, was He took me to a workplace, Christian workplace conference shortly after I was leaving corporate. I think He lured me there because He knew I’d go to something like that. And I heard this guy praying and as he was praying, I felt like I was eavesdropping on an intimate conversation that he was having with Jesus. And I said, “Wow, I, I don’t know what that is.” I thought he was getting up to pray for lunch, but like, ten minutes into it I realized this is not a lunch prayer. This is somebody who knows and loves Jesus in a way that I don’t. And I don’t know what you call it, but that’s what I need. And later I found out it was called adoration prayer. And ironically, what the Lord did is He took me back to when Shelley and I went through our deep pit around our marriage, we dug in, we went to counseling for over a year. We drove an hour to find the counselor who really understood us. And one of the things he taught us, he said, “Don’t say to Shelley, ‘I love you.’ Say to Shelley, ‘I love you because…’” And so, when I say to Shelley, “Shelley, I love you because I see the kindness in you when you answer the phone and somebody says, ‘Can you meet?’

And you say, ‘Yes, you don’t have anything on your schedule,’ when I know you do, but you make time. Or you get up from the table, I see your love for me when you get up from the table, you rub my back, as you go by me as I’m sitting in the chair. Not because it’s your love language, but because you know it’s mine. Now, Shelley, I see your kindness to the kids because you are doing things for them they don’t even know.” And when I say that to Shelley, our intimacy is much different than if I say, “I love you.” And the Lord was showing me, “Gregg, it’s the same way with Me. Why do you love Me? Not for the things that I have done for you, your salvation or your sanctification, but what about Me? What do you know about Me,” that causes me to love You? And about that time, as God would have it, He, there was a panel of people talking and this guy talked about a similar journey to mine. And he said what opened his heart to God was Psalm 103. He said, “If you could know God in the first few verses of Psalm 103, then you can know God.” And it goes, “God,” you know, “I love You because You’re the God who heals, You forgive all my sins.” And if that’s not enough, “You heal all my diseases that cause those sins.” If that’s not enough, “You redeem my life from the pit that those sins take me into.” If that’s not enough, you know, “You crown my head with love and compassion.” And if that’s not enough, “You satisfy me with good things.” And I remember just being on a journey for several weeks and it’s like really getting to know a God that acts in that way towards me. And it really opened up my heart. So, I started the “I love You because…” prayer of adoration prayer to who God is. And it really changed the trajectory of my intimacy with Him.

CHIP: One of the things you and I have talked so much about is intimacy and it’s different when you love God and you serve from His love.

GREGG: Yeah, absolutely, I was very performance based. As I know you were at seasons of your life. And so, you know, that really creates a misplaced identity. And so, as a result, your relationship is conditional, it’s shakable, you know? As we are performing well, as we are behaving right, as we are doing the right things, it’s good, it’s strong. When it’s not, it's bad. And so, it became this shifting sand. Now, what I discovered is like, in my head I knew that I was a child of God, you know, Romans 8 said that, “Gregg, you are an heir of God’s kingdom. You’re a co-heir with Christ.” I mean, those are amazing concepts. But the real truth was I didn’t really live from that. I lived for the validation that performance could get me and that was the truth not only at work, but at church and then in my walk with God. It was like I was working to receive that which God had already given me and grace and I wasn’t receiving it. And I remember you said something to me and I had maybe had even heard it before but there’s just seasons in life where you really take it in and you said, “Nothing you do today could make God love you any more and nothing you do today could make God love you any less.” And I remember that landed in the right place in my life and it, that seed grew. And it replaced the lie that I had been believing around, you know, my performance is what equates to my walk with God.

CHIP: Well, Gregg, I am really close to this story and I have been sort of a partaker as well as an observer. What I heard you say was intimacy is at the heart of building in the Spirit. And that the key to intimacy is something that I think is hard, especially – I’m just going to say for men, maybe it’s hard for women too – but adoration. This thought of just telling God how much you love Him for who He is, that, I watched you change. I mean, I watched a metamorphosis. How did, how did that experience where, you know, it still required discipline – you spent time with Him – but it was through a different lens. How did that change how you saw yourself and did it have any impact on, say, your marriage or other relationships?

GREGG: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And, by the way, it’s interesting because you said it took discipline. I heard a phrase that captured the very heart of this for me. And for me, it went from a devotion to discipline to a discipline to devotion.

CHIP: Hmm.

GREGG: And one is I am devoted to a series of things – steps, processes – that are behaviors and other things that I am expected to do. And the other is I discover what opens my heart to that person and I am disciplined to do those things, which open it up. And, again, I go back to the marriage example. Shelley and I had to learn how to rebuild intimacy. And the Lord took, He used that experience. He didn’t cause that issue in our marriage, but He used that experience to teach us and then said, “Okay, it’s this way with Me. And, by the way, it’s this way with everybody in My kingdom.” You know, it’s all about you getting to know people and seeing the God design in them and see them through My eyes and My heart so that you can encourage, equip, and inspire them. Whether they’re your children, whether they’re your friends, whether they’re the people I put in your life at the grocery store. It’s like it’s adopting this new lens that then becomes the way you see people and see life through.” So, it very much shifted that. And, you know, I remember in that season of “you’ve got things all wrong,” you know, I remember reading this, the passage, Matthew 11:28 where Jesus says, “My burden is easy and My yoke is light.” And I remember saying, “I’m not experiencing that. This feels heavy. Is this like, is this the - did somebody misinterpret the Greek here or something?” And it’s, and it was an invitation from the Lord to see Him in a new way in the way He works with me. And I was experiencing, I was a tired servant, you know? I was burned out on doing the things I was supposed to do. And they were leading me either to some spiritual pride at times, you know, not that I’d admit but subconsciously. Or feelings of failure. And what the Lord revealed to me in that season is that I was operating on a self-sufficiency. You know, it was my skills, my talents, my effort that I was counting on to deliver the performance that would validate and my faith and my relationship. And, you know, the Lord wanted to break me of that. And one of the ways He did that is He took me to the life of Abraham. He was going to be the father of the nation, right? For Israel. And, but the problem was, they aren’t having a baby and he’s late into his life, his wife Sarah is barren. And so, they conjure up this scheme for him to sleep with the maidservant, Hagar, and as a result, they birth Ishmael. But the problem was Ishmael was not the child of the promise.

CHIP: Mm-hm.

GREGG: And Abraham understood the purposes of God. He knew he was to do this, but he took things into his own hands, became self-sufficient, in that season, there was a reflection for me, He says, “Gregg, you’re a lot like Abraham. In fact, you not only birthed Ishmael, you’ve got a whole village of Ishamaels. And I remember the leadership book you sent me from one of your mentors, Chip, and in it there was this phrase, “Left to our own devices, we will run off and do Jesus’ will, God’s will in our name.”

CHIP: Mm.

GREGG: And that’s what I was like. I was thinking I had the…I had the purposes, but I didn’t have the plans. And the reason was I wasn’t partnering with God. And it’s really the heart of the concept where you talked about what is built in the flesh is maintained in the flesh. What is built in the Spirit is maintained in the Spirit. And the way the Lord walked me through that process is the beginnings of Iron Bell Ministry. When we first started out and we were learning these concepts around adoration, you know, I’m like, “Okay, Lord, I love this. I just, you know, I’m a builder. I – show me how to take this forward and what to do with it,” and, you know, I’m in my “let’s happen – make it happen” mode. And there’s nothing coming from it. And I remember pleading with me, saying, “Lord, You know me. You know I’m a builder. Just give me the blueprints and I’ll go build it.” And I remember getting a gentle rebuke in my spirit and I felt like the Lord was just saying, “Gregg, if I give you the blueprints you’ll run off and build it without Me. And I’m trying to teach you how to build in the Spirit with Me, how to partner with Me.” That step, once again, required surrender. And I remember being called out to a staff meeting that you were holding, and you asked me to facilitate a discussion. And I thought I was going to help you and you gave a talk on 2 Corinthians 12.

CHIP: Mm-hm.

GREGG: And you talked about Paul pleading, right? For the thorn to be removed from him. And, you know, here’s Paul, right? Three times and the Lord says, “No, My grace is sufficient for you, for My power is made perfect in weakness.” And I love, for the first time what really came through, what was Paul’s response? He says, he goes, “Okay, I just want to know how to release power. I’m going to boast in my weakness then.” So, it became this whole ah-ha, like, I’m operating out of the wrong system. I’ve got it wrong. I’m raising myself up to be self-sufficient and have these skills and make these things happen. And the Lord is saying, “No, it’s your dependence and weakness that is going to cause power to rush through you.”

CHIP: As I am listening to you I’m thinking how many people are there going, Wow, what a difference. Instead of “Now that I’ve got God’s will, I’ve got to go do it.” It’s, “Let’s go do it together.” And we are getting fairly near the end of our time and I want to ask you if you have time to come back for our next broadcast, because what I happen to know is that there’s a journey that you have gone through where you sort of break down how partnering actually happens. I mean, if I’m listening to you right now and I’m a go-getter, like a lot of our listeners are, it’s like, Oh man, I so resonate with that. But don’t leave me out there like, “Hey, good luck! You know, here’s the great concept.” And in fact, that’s one of the reasons, Gregg, that I told you as you began to unpack this and I have watched you do it in your life, that’s why it needed to be a book. And of all things, imagine the title of this book, Building in the Spirit: Discovering the Life God Destined for You. And I just want to say to people, you know, I had the privilege of writing the foreword. And I think the first line is, “I can’t think of a book that most Christians need to read any more than this one.” And that’s not hyperbole, it was more of I meet so many Christians that are so sincere, have the right intention, and just over time, and maybe because it’s such a struggle in my own life, is we have done a lot in the flesh and there’s a lot of tired Christians, burned out Christians, or now they have even gotten to where they are faking it a bit. And I’m talking about leaders. I’m talking about pastors even. I’m talking about missionaries and there’s this private isolation and I think it breaks God’s heart. When we are in His yoke, it really is light or it really fits, it is a good translation there. That illustration you shared, I use all the time in my own personal journey, because left to myself, I am a, “Thanks for the blueprint, Lord, I’m running.” And it’s like, “What are we going to do together?” That is, you know, He puts His arm around me. “Let’s go get them together.” So, um if you are resonating like me, Building in the Spirit, we have that available here at Living on the Edge. Just go to our website. We would love to help you build in the Spirit and really grow spiritually. Any final thoughts before we wrap things up, Gregg?

GREGG: I would just say if you can come away from this discussion understanding that we are working from value, from a validation standpoint, from, a good Father who says, “I love you, I’m with you,” and now we get to partner with Him to do the things that He has laid on our heart, then I think you’re off to a really good start.